(The transcript has been edited for brevity and clarity.)

Kevin Kallmyer: I have never been to San Jose, but I absolutely adore California as both a place where my family lives and a place with beautiful nature and seafood.

San Jose is maybe not known by everyone in Taiwan, but it's a pretty important city in the United States. Not only the 10th largest in the U.S., the third-largest in California, but when you think about things that drive American culture, I think about tech. I also think about food. It's a hub for both of those things.

Dennis Nieh: Wow, we're the 10th biggest city in the United States? I didn't know that.

I grew up in San Jose. I moved there when I was still in elementary school. Growing up I had a habit of not saying I was from San Jose because nobody ever knew where it was. So I ended up just saying, I'm from San Francisco. Nobody knew where San Jose was. But now San Jose is completely transformed. And then with the high-tech industry, the Silicon Valley growth since the 1970s. And throughout the 1980s, a lot of Taiwanese people were exposed to San Jose.

Kevin Kallmyer: Thinking about the transformation of a city, I sometimes think about the places that were important to me when I was a kid, and then how those touch points are just very different.

So for you, are there particular places that you think about from your childhood that just are totally transformed now?

Dennis Nieh: So many. I don't recognize it anymore. Thank goodness there's GPS, otherwise I would be completely lost.

When I was growing up, there wasn't much. The house I used to live in, I would ride my bike about five minutes, and then the road would just stop. And it would be an open field, there was a cattle ranch there. There's some horses. I used to go over and say, “I'd love to ride the horses. How much can I ride the horses for.” And he says "$2. But you have to go and grab them yourself.”

And then they’ll show you. It was just really down to earth. I miss a lot of that.

San Jose is not directly by the sea, but it's pretty close, so having access to the Bay Area, there's a lot of good seafood. Fishing spots I used to do a lot when I was a kid. I can tell you about some of the fishing spots that I used to go to. And on the other side where the mountains are, that's where the orchards were, the apricots, farm, and garlic. It was a huge thing in Gilroy, so south of San Jose beyond that.

Kevin Kallmyer: I just love the picture that you're painting.

So if you have a weekend where you and your family want to get outside, you want to eat some good food, where are you going? What are you doing? Are you fishing? Are you going to a restaurant? Are you being totally spontaneous?

Dennis Nieh: Since I've become a father, I've taken the kids back to San Jose, and it's become a tradition. Anytime we drive by that area, near Monterey, I would take the kids fishing. That's one of the fishing spots that I used to go to. If my memory serves me right, there's a Captain Randy out there. So if you're in that area, look for Captain Randy. Randy will take you out and we would go on these fishing boats.

We would catch anything from canaries to canary cods to blue, ling cods. These are just really good eating fish, right? Because it's cold water, the currents come from the north. So in California, it can be 100 degrees, out there the water’s still freezing. The colder the water, the tastier the fish because they accumulate all the fat in the meat. So the fish there tastes amazing.

It's the same bunch of people, same setup as when I was growing up. Some of the restaurants will cook it for us. Or we had half of it filleted right on the spot, and bring the fillets home. I love the cods. Put some flour on it, fry it a little bit. And then get some avocado, get some salsa, and you make some fish tacos out of those things. It's out of this world and I love it.

Kevin Kallmyer: Would you and your dad fish a lot too?

Dennis Nieh: Growing up, I'm glad my dad was pretty outdoorsy. We were first-generation immigrants. So life was not fancy, but we made do. So he owned a restaurant in San Jose. He loved the outdoors. The restaurant shut down fairly early sometimes. I would call him after school saying “Are you done? Are you wrapping up?” and he's like, “Yeah, I’m almost done so we'll meet you at the lake.”

So there's a couple of reservoirs in San Jose that we would go fish that you can catch smallmouth, largemouth bass. That you can catch crappies and bluegills out there.

Another spot would be in San Mateo, and there's a 92 Freeway, I believe, there's a bridge that goes across. There's a fisherman's dock underneath - like a boardwalk but it goes out. We’d go fishing there. On a good day you’d run into striper bass. Kingfish.

Kingfish has almost gone extinct in Asia because we Asians love kingfish. In Mandarin, it's called huang yu (黃魚), yellow fish. But they're so tasty. And then when the season is right, we can catch stingrays. The stingrays are jumping out of the water so you can catch a lot of those. Those are a lot of fun.

But the icing on top of the cake - California is obviously known for its Dungeness Crab right? So whenever we go fishing along the coast, we'd bring a couple of crab nets, and we would set out the nets while we're fishing. When we’re done fishing, we would bring the nets up. Majority - I would say 90% of the crabs that you would catch out there - they’re Dungeness crabs.

Kevin Kallmyer: I grew up in Maryland. So some of the kind of fishing that you did in San Jose does not resonate because I would just remember... We’d go Oceanside, and I would fail to catch fish, which is why we would then go to the other side, Bayside, where then I could crab. And we would catch a ton of crabs.

Now a touchstone in my memory of family is family reunion where we would eat once a year and just a huge crab boil. It's about the ritual because, you know, you're not getting food efficiently at all when you’re picking crab. But it was just really important to the family and really delightful.

Dennis Nieh: What kind of crabs are out there? Is it Dungeness?

Kevin Kallmyer: Blue crabs.

Dennis Nieh: Yeah so now I've traveled and I've lived in Asia for quite some time now, I know the Japanese food culture and the Taiwanese food culture is very rich as well, and we eat a lot of crabs. But man, I tell you that I miss the Dungeness crabs.

I feel like a Dungeness crab is designed by God, or by nature. It's so tasty. And you know, they're not very fast. They don't have spikes like king crabs, so they're very easy. The shells are soft, so they're easy to peel. They're slow. They're chubby, and they just taste good. You can literally eat one Dungeness crab and you're pretty filled. I'm a fairly big dude. In Asia, if you've had a chance to try things like dazha xie (大閘蟹) the Chinese type, you have to eat what, 10 of those to get some meat in you. You’re suckling on the shells.

I mean, a Dungeness crab. You can make a burger out of it. I love that.

Kevin Kallmyer: I think the crabs in Maryland are more similar to the Asian crabs. When I found out that Dungeness crabs existed, I was like, “Why are we not eating these? This seems a lot simpler.”

Dennis Nieh: Every fisherman has got a few stories. So one day, we went...

Normally we catch a few fish, and then by the time we end, we bring up the nets, we would get a couple of crabs in there. That's like a bonus. There's one time, we're bringing up the nets, and it felt like it was stuck. We’re moving it this way, moving it that way, try to unsnag it, but it was definitely not moving.

So we started pulling it really hard and it budged. It was just heavy. So I thought maybe we caught some kelp or old tire. And it's dark because most of the crabbing is done at night. So the net got out of the water. and we’re on the boardwalk. We're looking down, and so we shined a flashlight on there. There's stuff moving in there. Lo and behold, it was full of crabs!

Normally you get one, or two, or three in there. That day for some reason, there has to be like 40 crabs in there. And the excitement— I remember it like it was yesterday.

So if you like fishing, like me, if you're into crabbing, you know that feeling? And then you bring it up and that's the catch that you would never forget for the rest of your life.

Kevin Kallmyer: It's a great story and does make me hungry a little bit. We have some food here that we can maybe try. We got some shrimp and calamari here that hopefully can resonate a bit with the San Jose seafood.

Dennis Nieh: Oh, calamari. Calamari’s awesome. You want lemon?

Kevin Kallmyer: Of course. Can’t eat without a little bit of lemon.

Dennis Nieh: Oh, you guys are really bringing back memories. This is calamari with lemon. And is that jalapenos? I'm so glad now that we can get some of this stuff in Taiwan. When I first moved out here, you can't get salsa. You can't get jalapenos.

I think one of the first people that brought in jalapeños was Subway sandwiches. I would go into a Subway, and say, “Can I buy some of those off of you guys?”

Kevin Kallmyer: The seafood culture in Taiwan is fantastic, but, the way that seafood is seasoned, it's very different. So in Maryland, like Old Bay, it's basically a religion. It's like paprika, celery, salt, a bunch of things like that. What’s the go-to seasoning for seafood in San Jose?

Dennis Nieh: I love cooking myself. We eat lobsters, and we barely use any seasoning. The steaks that we cook, we use some butter, maybe some herbs, that's about it, right? We keep it light and that's it.

But Asian food, why are they so colorful when it comes to spices? I used to really dislike the fact that some of the luweì (滷味), which is kind of like the seasoned, long-simmered type of meat that's here. People would do that with chicken feet and duck wings, right? There's hardly any meat on it.

I never really understood why until later on I realized, so there's reasons to that. One, I think, it's you work with what you have. In Asia, especially if you go in China, some of the deeper parts of it. There's more people than there are resources, so they had less choices to eat, they can't be that choosy. So anything with a little bit of meat, they would still have to savor it, right?

You need to kind of suckle on it. So giving it a ton of flavor makes it better for suckling. So I tried doing that with something with meat on it. And when I did it with a chicken thigh, it wouldn't taste good, because you don't want a huge chunk of meat when it's that spicy and colorful and tasty.

So that's one part that I see is very different when it comes to food culture. For Taiwan, most of the seafood are extremely fresh. The cooking here, it's a mixture of many different influences. Some from the mainland, some from Japan, and definitely nowadays more from the West as well. But here in Taiwan, I think people enjoy something quick with a big stove.

So it's a lot of quick stir fry, a lot of that in Taiwan.

Kevin Kallmyer: Yeah, geography, resources, it all drives changes in the food culture. The food in San Jose, I often think fish tacos, like a quick fry on maybe a slaw with jalapeños or avocado, which are not really things that you're going to get as much in Taiwan.

So if you're trying to bring some San Jose flavors to your family in Taiwan, like what's the go-to dish that you'll cook?

Dennis Nieh: I still do fish tacos at home. Things are more available now. So in Taiwan, you get jalapeño, we can get avocados, or we can get salsas and whatnot. But in San Jose, the things that I just mentioned, those are some of the casual food. The calamari, the crab.

There is a really nice restaurant if you are ever in the Bay Area. I believe it's in Millbrae, near the San Francisco Airport. It's kind of like a warehouse, it's very casual. It's a lobster house. You can pick your lobster and take it home, or they make a lobster sandwich. And you pair that with oysters, half shells, a dozen, half a dozen. They're all really good casual food.

One of the things that in San Francisco, one of the most popular tourist attractions is the Fisherman's Wharf. One of the main things you need to eat there is the clam chowder -

Kevin Kallmyer: - In the bread bowl.

Dennis Nieh: Right! So you know exactly what I'm talking about. That's all over the Bay Area. If you go to Santa Cruz on the boardwalk, they have it there as well. There is a very tasty fried zucchini place on Fisherman's Wharf. That's one of my favorite places.

San Jose is a wine country, so there are a lot of fine dining as well. I'm not sure if the pandemic has changed anything, but there was one restaurant that we would always do whenever there's something special with a birthday or, or prom. It's called Scott's Seafood Bars and Grills. I believe that's in San Jose. That's one of those really nice restaurants when I was growing up, if you take a girl there, you're set.

Kevin Kallmyer: California though, we also have the hub of technology in the United States. It's this interesting point of tension, right? In a place where nature is so important, it's also where tech is so important.

Part of it is because we have different communities that are built around those things. Part of it is, they mutually reinforce each other in interesting ways. So for you, what role did the tech culture in San Jose play growing up?

Dennis Nieh: I was there right at the beginning of the whole tech industry. I believe it started just prior to me getting there, late 1970s. And throughout the 1980s, so exactly when I was there as a kid, that was a part of everyday life.

People were trying to build their own computers. There used to be a few publications that were free. The kids in San Jose, for fun, it was just riding our bikes, going fishing, and then grabbing these free publications that literally just talks about what's new. They would advertise things like motherboards that went from the XT to the AT to 286.

Some kids would be building their computers. I was involved in some of that. I think it affected me in a bit of a weird way. I'm sort of like the black sheep. I would say 70%, at least close to 60% or 70% of my friends while growing up in San Jose are probably all ended up directly or indirectly connected to tech.

Kevin Kallmyer: Oh, wow.

Dennis Nieh: I'm one of the very few that went a different route. I was on the radio since I was in high school, been on the radio and TV for my entire life. So if my computer broke, I'll call my friend Steve to come take a look at it for me.

I was at home rehearsing with the band. So now looking back, tech is great. It brought us all back together. I grew up in the same place. So from elementary school to middle school to high school, it was all the same bunch of friends. And then we kind of lost touch because I moved L.A., and then moved to Asia and started working out here.

Finally, what 20 years later, I was planning to go to the Bay Area. My kids went with me. I drove them around and showed them where I used to live, where I used to fish, the school I went to. I went to Leland High School in San Jose. And I stood in front of the school and took a selfie. I put it on Facebook and I say, “I'm back, who's here?”

By that evening, the messages started coming in. All these friends started to reach out and we got reconnected like that on Facebook.

The next day, we went out and we had dinner. We met up on what is that called? Santana Row, that didn't exist when I was growing up there. That's like the most happening place in San Jose now.

They found a restaurant, then afterwards we grabbed a few drinks and got a little buzzed. It was really, really fun. All of a sudden, I just realized, “You guys know me probably better than anybody else in this world.” This is the bunch, we grew up together. This is the first time we grabbed a drink together. Because the last time we met, we weren't legally able to drink yet. I left when I was 18.

So that was the first time ever drinking with my buddies, and it was a great experience. Everyone looks so different. Well, some of the guys got bigger. The hairiest kid is bald now, right?

Kevin Kallmyer: We're all getting older, you don’t have to remind me of that.

A friend is visiting my hometown, they're always like, “Where should I go?” And the answer is, you should go wherever your five best friends are. With that big caveat in mind, if me and my wife are going to San Jose in a few months, where are you sending us?

Dennis Nieh: Is this like a honeymoon kind of thing?

Kevin Kallmyer: Sure! I mean—

Dennis Nieh: With kids or without kids?

Kevin Kallmyer: Wife, no kids.

Dennis Nieh: So something nicer and more romantic. You know, one of the parts that I do love about the Bay Area is near Pebble Beach in Carmel. Carmel is one of those just below the radar because I don't think people talk about Carmel as much. It's just a 30-minute, 40-minute drive away from San Jose. Because San Jose now it's busting, it's a huge city. It's the 10th largest city so it's no longer that quiet place that I grew up.

But Carmel kind of stayed the same. So I really enjoy going out to Carmel and just spending a weekend out there. There's some really nice restaurants out there. I don't know if you remember the book that we used to read, Cannery Row.

Kevin Kallmyer: Yeah.

Dennis Nieh: Remember that book? So that's Carmel.

You can go there and the buildings are still there. They're probably clubs or restaurants now, but it's still quieter. Much quieter than San Jose. So going out there, enjoying the beach.

So you'll see these magnificent trees, I think you drive out - is that the Highway 17 or something like that - it's just gorgeous. There's a place called the 17-Mile Drive. Have you heard of that place?

Kevin Kallmyer: No, I haven’t.

Dennis Nieh: Okay, so the 17-Mile Drive is near Pebble Beach, right? That's one of the most gorgeous places in California. It's a stretch of road and a community just about 17 miles. I believe it's a gated community where these extremely extravagant houses are located. And it's so gorgeous that it's a public tourist attraction. But within that gated community, there are public restaurants and golf courses, and the landscape there is just magnificent.

On the mountainous side, you have the redwoods. You have these pine that grows on these rocks right next to the ocean.

And to the listeners out there that do have kids, on the way out there there's a place that always brings back memories. It's called the Mystery Spot. It's like this little hut in the Redwood Forest on the way out to the seaside. Their story is it's some kind of a gravity vortex spot that twisted everything around. No matter how hard they try, they cannot straighten up the house. And you go in, and it'll disorient you.

It's a neat little place where the ball will roll uphill. It's weird, it's neat. Especially if you have kids, take them there.

Kevin Kallmyer: That’s fantastic.

Before we wrap up, when you bring your kids there, is there a particular point that you emphasize for what you really remember and care about San Jose that you share with them?

Dennis Nieh: I think now to them, there's a different image of San Jose. The tech part of it is quite mesmerizing. So I've taken them to the Apple headquarters or their new building and showed them around there. The kids really love that.

But when I take them out to some of the spots that I grew up in, I try to share the stories and the memories that I have with them. I care a lot about that connection and that bond within the family. I want them to feel that warmth there.

One thing that as a person that loves to fish, I really appreciate which is the nature of things have been preserved so well. One time we went and set out with Randy, a couple of fish that was on the list - what this year's number seems to be a little low. So if we catch any of these types of fish, we’re going to throw them back. And to hear that from him, for me, it's something that I really appreciate.

I make it a point that my kids understand this, which is, this is why the place I used to fish still exists. My kids can fish at the same spot, is because we love the place that we live in. And when everybody does their part, then things can stay nice.

Kevin Kallmyer: I think that's a great idea to kind of let resonate there. So I'll say thanks so much for the time and chatting and sharing those stories, Dennis.

Dennis Nieh: You're very welcome.

This episode is produced by Emily Y. Wu. Teresa Yen is our production coordinator and editor. Our editing assistant is Gerald Williams. Engineering supervisor is Dino Lin. Graphics by Logan Dosher. Thanks to Chloe Ramond and Mikey Redding for assisting.